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Author: Subject: Should Austin have jobbed?
Stormtrooper
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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:23 PM Edit Post
Should Austin have jobbed?

Okay so it should suprise nobody that I think he should've jobbed but there seems to be a lot of people saying that someone of his stature shouldn't have been asked to job to Coach. In my opinion anyone on the roster should be willing to loose to any other member at any time, that's how pro-wrestling works.

Looking to get some clarification on why people think Austin should or shouldn't have lost to Coach.





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JAYD
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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:30 PM Edit Post
Of course he shouldn't have. They made it clear at the Homecoming that they wanted to do Austin/Hogan at Mania. I don't know if they could ever work out the politics and figure out a winner in that one, but if they DID, why the hell do you need Austin to job to Coach just to put Mark Henry over? That weakens Austin for that huge WM main event. Plus, it's obvious that it wasn't vital for Coach to go over, as Batista went over him easily at TT. They just wanted him to go over for the JR storyline...well it's their own fault for booking themselves into that corner.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:41 PM Edit Post
Did loosing to Hurricane hurt Rock's build up to his Wrestlemania match with Austin?





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metallikid
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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:43 PM Edit Post
Exactly how does it weaken Austin to lose to 3 or 4 guys at once? NOBODY should beat 3-4 guys. Batista gets away with it because (1) He is huge, (2) He is World Champ. I think it is very believable that a guy like Austin who hasn’t been active in two years would lose to Goldust, Vader, & Coach. Throw in Mark Henry and it is a gimme. Jobbing would have furthered the story of JR’s dismissal and you know he would find a way to get revenge on Coach down the road before he would even get ready for Hogan. Maybe Hogan wins a match that brings Austin back and we have a few tense weeks with Hogan & Austin. Austin is thankful for Hulk getting his job back but Hogan assures him it is only to beat him at Wrestlemania.

Really what is the harm losing to Coach??? Triple H jobbed to JR!!!





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:52 PM Edit Post
I think that if you are in the professional wrestling bizness, you should have to job to anyone else the company tells you to. That's what made Vince a genius back in the day and why he's such a fucking jerk now.

Look at The Rock for example. He didn't mind loosing to Hurricane because it was right for the bizness, not for his own stupid ego. And that's someone whose gone on to become a successful movie star!





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:55 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by metallikid
Exactly how does it weaken Austin to lose to 3 or 4 guys at once? NOBODY should beat 3-4 guys.

But Austin wasn't asked to lose to that many guys. It was Coach, with a run in from Mark Henry. Talk about underwhelming.

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posted on 11-3-2005 at 03:59 PM Edit Post
But that's the point surely, if Mark Henry can return and take out Austin that makes an impact and sets him up as a major player.

Surely all WWE fans know the reason Austin doesn't wrestle anymore, it's unrealistic that the 'strongest man in the world' and another guy can take out and injured ex-wrestler?





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:01 PM Edit Post
It is still not clean. It is a street Fight. Have Henry nails him with a Chair repeatedly. The fans won’t think Austin is weak for losing to Henry, they would think, Oh no Mark Henry, you just pissed off The Rattlesnake. When he gets you one on one your dead.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:12 PM Edit Post
See, this is one of those topics that always bugs me. Someone please explain this dichotomy to me.

If any of the Canadian Chrises job constantly I hear "They're so over with the crowd that it's okay for them to lose to Snitsky/Masters/Tomko/Conway/the pop corn vendor"

So why are arguably one of the biggest draws (Austin) the two current WORLD champs (Batista/Cena) and the other biggest draw (Hogan) exempt from this rule?

If there so fuckin' untouchable to their fans, why can't they do the job when it seems right to? And don't give me that bull shit that their opponent often looks better in the defeat. That's true sometimes.

But when Austin stuns half the locker room, Cena wins handicap matches without breaking a sweat, Hogan wins a match with exactly five moves (not five different moves, just a total of five moves) who exactly looks strong again?

I truly believe what Flair said in his book "If you beat a guy by making him look like shit. all you've accomplished is that you can beat shit." or something to that affect.

It's not just uncontrollable smark hate for these guys, it's just an honest question. If you're so over, why can't you job a little?

With Stone Cold, I understand (but still don't like) when he didn't want to job to Brock on Raw (though Hogan not only jobbed on SmackDown a few weeks later, but fuckin' passed out I think for the first time in his career). But not jobbing to Coach and maybe three other guys seems kinda...petty. Maybe it's because I have this dream to be a wrestler and haven't tasted the success he has, but still, after two years of not wrestling and then having to facet possibly two giants, a very decent looking GoldDust and Coach, how does he lose face in that situation? It's 3-4 guys against someone only the newest of fans don't realize is broken down. Should Austin/Hogan be jobbed out like bitches? Despite the glee I'd take in it, absolutely not. But they should show some vuneralbility. That's why I didn't start liking Superman again until people could actually hurt him. It's what turned me off wrestling when I was younger. It's why I hated Goldberg after his fiftieth win or so. It's what keeps me from thinking any match with John Cena (and to a lesser extent Batista) is going to end with him dropping a clean fall.

Sorry about the rant, but like I said, I'm just curious as to why some people can have terminal jobberitis and still remain strong and be a promo or match away from being believed to be world champ material, but the actual champs and past legends can't even drop handicap matches or they'll be forever remembered at the jobbingest jobber who ever jobbed to a jobber.

edited to add....

Edited to comment on what Chris said

Even if it was supposed to be only Mark Henry, he's a HOSS. Didn't they used to do that with Hogan back in the day? Hogan gets a push over match then suddenly the monster of the month puts a beating on him only to get destroyed by the power of Hulk-a-mania in their one on one encounter. It's just like metallkid said, the fans aren't going to go "Ha you jobbed to Coach." They're going to say "Oh shit Mark Henry is a dead man."

[Edited on 11-3-2005 by blackdragon]





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:15 PM Edit Post
Exactly. Austin could lose to a midget, clean, in the middle of the ring and it is not going to affect howthe fans look at him at all. He can come out next week and the fans will erupt and cheer, it is not like they will just sit there and say "hell I'm not cheering for THIS guy, he lost to a MIDGET!" All Austin would have to say is he couldn't hit the little sumbitch cause he was drunk, and all would be forgotten

I just don't understand, thereare some guys right now, Hogan, HBK, Austin, Angle where doing a job, even to random returning wrestler, is not going to hurt them one little bit. Austin was wrong here. Didn't he bitch about this very same thing back in the day when the established guys would not do the job?





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:41 PM Edit Post
One thing to consider, from Austin's POV - the purpose of him losing would be what, exactly?

Henry's involvement (so far, at least) has been just a rumor. He may or may not have been involved. Asssuming he isn't, what purpose would be served by having Coach pin Austin?

I'm all for wrestlers putting each other over, but I'm also assuming there is a point to it. If they weren't actually going to do something constructive with it - like they didn't do anything when now-Nora got her head shaved - then what motivation would Austin have to go to the ring and get pinned by Coach? It would be different if it was an up-and-coming wrestler like Carlito or Kennedy, but it was just Coach.

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metallikid
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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:43 PM Edit Post
The point is JR remains fired. The McMahon’s look like asses for their continued dominance. Is it a great story? Not really. But it is the story that they are telling and the story that Austin started to get involved in. It seems selfish for him to quit in the middle and make the WWE changed plans at the last minute.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:49 PM Edit Post
For a guy who has limited matches left in him because of his neck and health, jobbing him to an announcer in a nothing match in an attempt to get the McMahons over as heels (they don't need much help) and get Mark Henry over (has been tried over and over again and never worked) is pointless.

Rock jobbing to Hurricane was completely different. That, at least, was a setup to the WM match with Austin. Rock at the time also thought it would help elevate Hurricane. Unfortunately, the WWE never followed up on this, and the upset became meaningless for Hurricane. What good does elevating Coach do for Austin? What good does elevating Mark Henry do? He's had his chances, and he always gets hurt and has NEVER been over.

HHH jobbing to JR was again completely different. It was an evil heel beating down a helpless announcer until Batista interfered and so on. I didn't think it was the best booking, but again it led towards a WM match. Austin jobbing to Coach LEADS TO NOTHING. At most it leads to Austin vs. Vince at Mania, something we've seen a zillion times before.

Austin was right to walk out when they wanted him to job to Lesnar on free TV with no hype instead of building to it. If they wanted him to job to Coach, plus his back was hurt as the Torch reported, then there's no way he should have done the match. It's just stupidity on WWE's part.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:52 PM Edit Post
You're damn straigh he did. Pot. Kettle. Black.

But come on dude, as much as I hated the fact that she didnt belong within 100 miles of a wrestling ring, Debra was a fine lookin woman. I'd have 'hit' that in front of my grandma if she was offering it. But to actually HIT her (or any woman)? The dude is fucked up - refusing to job to coach is the least of his problems.

But staying on topic - he should have jobbed. Put me with the 'he's so popular, he could lose 10 matches to Val Venis in a row and still be popular' kids.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 04:57 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gobshite
You're damn straigh he did. Pot. Kettle. Black.

But come on dude, as much as I hated the fact that she didnt belong within 100 miles of a wrestling ring, Debra was a fine lookin woman. I'd have 'hit' that in front of my grandma if she was offering it. But to actually HIT her (or any woman)? The dude is fucked up - refusing to job to coach is the least of his problems.

But staying on topic - he should have jobbed. Put me with the 'he's so popular, he could lose 10 matches to Val Venis in a row and still be popular' kids.


In 1987 Hogan would have been popular enough to lose 10 televised non-title matches against Bobby Heenan prior to his match against Andre, but that doesn't mean it would have been the smart thing to do.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:01 PM Edit Post
One more thing...Meltzer wrote this on the subject:

quote:
Vince felt Austin had to lose because he was burying JR and doesn't want him back. Austin didn't want to be a party to it, and was under the impression he was winning the bout.


Austin didn't just walk out over doing the job. He also wanted no part of burying his best friend. To me, that's understandable. Maybe they can straighten things out down the road. I don't see why they just didn't have Austin win the match and then have the McMahons pull some BS to keep JR gone.

The sad thing is that Vince believes JR is part of the reason why the company isn't doing that well right now.

[Edited on 11-3-2005 by JAYD]





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:04 PM Edit Post
I guess my point is that who are we (or even possibly Austin) to decide what the smart thing to do is? I hate the direction of the company at the moment, but I guess I'm still blindly believing that they do have some sort of gameplan - how do we know that this push wasnt gonna be the one that worked for Mark Henry? He is no worse a wrestler than Cena, and at least his size makes his offence believable.

When I'm at work, I'll do what the boss wants. If I dont think its the right ting to do, I'll tell him - but if he says, I want you to do it anyway' I would - cuz thats what I'm paid for. Then when it all goes wrong, I'll be the one doing the bitching, not the one being bitched about. But that's just me, I guess.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:04 PM Edit Post
What gets me is that on the back of the TT shirt it says Austin vs. Coach (w/ Mark Henry) which leads me to believe the plans for Coach to go over were laid out a while ago so why would Austin bail at the last minute? Totally unprofessional and selfish on his part...AGAIN.

Yet I'm dumb enough to mark for him every time he's on TV - I gotta get out of my late-90s mindset.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:10 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by fsolomon75
What gets me is that on the back of the TT shirt it says Austin vs. Coach (w/ Mark Henry) which leads me to believe the plans for Coach to go over were laid out a while ago so why would Austin bail at the last minute? Totally unprofessional and selfish on his part...AGAIN.

Yet I'm dumb enough to mark for him every time he's on TV - I gotta get out of my late-90s mindset.


So you think he should have jobbed to Lesnar on free TV with no buildup back in 2002 as well?

Apparently the plans WEREN'T laid out well in advance as Austin just assumed he was beating Coach and found out a day before the show or whatever that he wasn't going to be. The other big part of the deal is that he found out that JR wasn't coming back, and he didn't want to be a part of Vince's burial of JR.

Sure, if the boss wants you to do something, you do it. But Austin is in a different situation. He's financially secure, he doesn't HAVE to do what Vince says. You can call it unprofessional if you want, but if I'm in a good enough situation so that I can refuse my boss' orders to do something stupid and to do something that helps bury my good friend, then awesome.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:18 PM Edit Post
I don't think Austin should have jobbed to Lesnar w/o buildup but if that's what he's told to do, he has to. He signed a contract, he should honor it even if he doesn't agree with how he's booked. You just can't walk out or no-show because you don't like the outcome. People pay a lot of money to see him and basically he told them to go fuck themselves. At least that's the impression I got.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:25 PM Edit Post
But again, the whole thing comes down to this: Vince is the boss, and once again Austin showed he was unprofessional about doing things.

Let's say this was all more in the long line of things to bury JR, since JR is still an employee of Mcmahonland, he knows it is all just an angle. Having Austin involved is nothing personal, it is all part of the larger story of McMahon being a dick. He fired JR to punish Austin for stunning his entire family. Does it not make perfectly logical sense for McMahon to stack the deck against Austin so he loses, JR doesn't get his job back, and it furthers the story that McMahon just doesn't like Austin. Yes it has been done before, but that certainly seems to be the direction they were going. I don't believe for a second that Austin didn't know that is how it would play out, HE WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL STORY when they did it five years ago

And it just doesn't matter if they had Austin jobbing clean to Coach in the middle of the ring, if that is what you are supposed to do, then do it. Austin is above any kind of tarnish from doing a job, like I said, he could job a million times in a row, as long as he flipped people off and drank beer, it will all be ok

And as far as jobbing clean to Brock on tv, hell yes he should have done it. How much could that have helped WWE tv at the time? To have something like that happen on free tv, it would have given that "damn anything can happen" vibe once again. And just because you don't build up the first meeting, does not mean you can not get a hell of a feud out of it. How many rematches could we have gotten leading up to WM or whatever where Austin was trying to get revenge on Brock and get his spot back? A whole feud could have been gold, but because Austin is a prima donna, none of it ever happened.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:32 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by mooseheadjack
But again, the whole thing comes down to this: Vince is the boss, and once again Austin showed he was unprofessional about doing things.

Let's say this was all more in the long line of things to bury JR, since JR is still an employee of Mcmahonland, he knows it is all just an angle. Having Austin involved is nothing personal, it is all part of the larger story of McMahon being a dick. He fired JR to punish Austin for stunning his entire family. Does it not make perfectly logical sense for McMahon to stack the deck against Austin so he loses, JR doesn't get his job back, and it furthers the story that McMahon just doesn't like Austin. Yes it has been done before, but that certainly seems to be the direction they were going. I don't believe for a second that Austin didn't know that is how it would play out, HE WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL STORY when they did it five years ago

And it just doesn't matter if they had Austin jobbing clean to Coach in the middle of the ring, if that is what you are supposed to do, then do it. Austin is above any kind of tarnish from doing a job, like I said, he could job a million times in a row, as long as he flipped people off and drank beer, it will all be ok

And as far as jobbing clean to Brock on tv, hell yes he should have done it. How much could that have helped WWE tv at the time? To have something like that happen on free tv, it would have given that "damn anything can happen" vibe once again. And just because you don't build up the first meeting, does not mean you can not get a hell of a feud out of it. How many rematches could we have gotten leading up to WM or whatever where Austin was trying to get revenge on Brock and get his spot back? A whole feud could have been gold, but because Austin is a prima donna, none of it ever happened.


But the thing is, this WASN'T part of a bigger story. Vince wanted Coach to beat Austin because he doesn't want JR back. Period. Meltzer has said so himself. This wasn't going to lead to anything that would bring JR back, and I doubt it would lead to anything with Austin other than like I said maybe they would give him a Mania match with Vince if the Hogan thing didn't work out. Who knows. Yes, Vince is the boss, and yes you're supposed to do what the boss says, but I can see why Austin did what he did.

Totally disagree on Austin/Lesnar. WCW threw away Hogan/Goldberg on free TV for a nice rating and it did them absolutely zero long term good.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:32 PM Edit Post
Austin's no-shows are getting Warrior-esque. Hell, I'm betting on a "Self-Destruction of Steve Austin" DVD in 5 years.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:34 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by fsolomon75
Austin's no-shows are getting Warrior-esque. Hell, I'm betting on a "Self-Destruction of Steve Austin" DVD in 5 years.


Haha, very true.

We'll see what happens here. Maybe he and Vince will work things out. They have before. Apparently Austin's back was hurt moving furniture (reported by the Torch), so there was no way he was going to risk hurting himself more to work a midcard match against an announcer on a small scale PPV and do the job to boot. Maybe when his back is better we'll see him back and they'll work out a full story arc AHEAD OF TIME.





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posted on 11-3-2005 at 05:55 PM Edit Post
First of all, I take Meltzer and everyone else's reports with a grain of salt, just because he reports it does not make it gospel.

And I disagree, the whole firing thing seemed, to me, part of a larger story involving the McMahons and Austin. JR was fired because he did not do anything after Austin stunned them all, therefore the firing was Austin's fault. This would have eventually played out in a match between either Vince and Austin, or a hired gun of Vince and Austin - even if the end result still would have been JR not getting his job back. There is no reason to believe that Austin losing at TT would have been the end of this story.

Also, ok, WCW gave away Goldberg-Hogan and it didn't work, that was a fuck up on WCW's part (one of many) that does not necessarily mean that the same thing would have happened in WWE. It could well have been the start of one of the greatest feuds ever, or, perhaps it would have tanked as well. The point is, we will never know because Austin bitched like a pansy.

You don't NEED a big build up for a match, what the hell ever happened to just putting two guys in the ring? A big build up does not guarantee a big match, look at Brock - Goldberg





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